Post Production career

[T.Skelton]

Hello,
I am seriously thinking about doing a career change and I am in highly interested in a new career in Audio Post-Production. I have several questions in how to get started in post-production and the career in general.

I am looking into enrolling at SAE in there Audio Technology Program. Is this a good school to gain some knowledge in audio post-production? What school would you recommend in the Los Angeles area?

What should I focus on in school and before I enroll to help give me a little bit of advantage over the competition?

Is it more important to have musical background or can a person that has no real musical background (except knowing how to beat match when I use to Dj) be able to have a career in post?

When starting out with your first post job after completing school, what is the position(s) that I should apply for. What is the job description?
How long will it take to get promote to the next level?
What is the career path?
What is the job forecast for audio post-production? Is it in demand?
Is there continuous and stable work if you work for a post studio?

What is the starting, mid and high-end salary ranges?

Should I get my hearing checked and find out what frequencies I can and not hear?

What is the best way to network with people in this field?

Could I sit in on a session to see what goes on and maybe learn something before I jump in? Who and where?

What piece of advise would you give to someone starting out in this field?

I will have more questions later as I think of them and I would like to thank you in advance for your replies.

Truly,
Todd Skelton

[T.Skelton]

hmmm...so no one can answer my questions?

Can any give me a reference of an established Audio Post Production / Re-Recoding Engineer or anyone else in this career that is located in the Los Angeles area that I can talk to? Thanks.

you can PM me or email directly at: toskelton@ca.rr.com

[Bondelev]

hmmm...so no one can answer my questions?

Can any give me a reference of an established Audio Post Production / Re-Recoding Engineer or anyone else in this career that is located in the Los Angeles area that I can talk to? Thanks.

you can PM me or email directly at: toskelton@ca.rr.com

You asked a lot of questions, most of them broad or vague, so I think people were a little overwhelmed. To answer all the questions thoroughly would take a lot of time and effort. However, I'll try to answer a few succinctly.

[Bondelev]

I am looking into enrolling at SAE in there Audio Technology Program. Is this a good school to gain some knowledge in audio post-production? What school would you recommend in the Los Angeles area?

I don't know what SAE is.

Are you looking for a Master's degree or just some classes?


What should I focus on in school and before I enroll to help give me a little bit of advantage over the competition?

This is a very vague questions and I'm not sure there's any specific answer that would be useful unless you are more specific on what you want to do.


Is it more important to have musical background or can a person that has no real musical background (except knowing how to beat match when I use to Dj) be able to have a career in post?

This is a matter of opinion. I have a musical background and I think it was extremely helpful. Most people I know in post who are talented have some level of musical background. However, there are many successful people in post who have no musical background whatsoever.

When starting out with your first post job after completing school, what is the position(s) that I should apply for. What is the job description?
How long will it take to get promote to the next level?
What is the career path?
What is the job forecast for audio post-production? Is it in demand?
Is there continuous and stable work if you work for a post studio?

You need to be more specific about what you want to do. Music? Sound Effects? Mixing? Editin? Film? Television?


What is the starting, mid and high-end salary ranges?

Starting = unpaid "internship"
High-end = $1M+/year

Normal rates can be seen at the unions' web sites.


Should I get my hearing checked and find out what frequencies I can and not hear?

Absolutely.


What is the best way to network with people in this field?

If I knew, I'd be working more. :-D I'd say joining the guilds and craft orginazations is a good start.


Could I sit in on a session to see what goes on and maybe learn something before I jump in? Who and where?

Possibly if you are nice. :)


What piece of advise would you give to someone starting out in this field?

Ask yourself the one most important question: Are you absolutely sure this is what you want to do?

I think most people get into the business because they think it's going to be easy and fun.

It's almost never "easy" work, and rarely is it truly "fun." In fact, it is very, very hard work, with intense hours. For the early part of anyone's career, it's likely that it will be very difficult to make ends meet. You will work for free, you will work for almost nothing, you will work 12+ hour days and not get paid overtime (or maybe even not get paid at all; there are a lot of dishonest people in this business, particularly at the bottom).

The stress of either being unemployed and constantly looking for work alternating with being overworked wreaks havoc on personal lives and relationships. I know many, many people who have gotten out of the business, and many more looking for a way to get out. Do not do this as a lark, or a way to avoid finding a "real" job. You should do this only if there is a burning desire in you that can not be fulfilled by any other career choice.

[T.Skelton]

Bondelev,

Thank you for your reply. I hope this will clear up of some of my vague questions.

SAE = www.SAE.edu - School of Audio Engineering. When you complete SAE's Audio Engineering Technology program you will receive a diploma. I would like to know if there are other schools that offer the same type of program in Los Angeles?

Is there a particular area in Audio I could/should learn before I take any classes to help me get ahead. i.e. Pro Tools, audio theory...etc

What is the career path for a Re-Recording Engineer, Mixer, sound editor, sound supervisor and ADR for film and/or TV? I know there are many positions within this field and I just would like to know what are the responsibilities and career path of each so I can choice which career I want to focus on.

I have asked myself if this is what I want to do for a long time and because it keeps popping up in my head a few times a year for about the last 10yrs I have to say YES. I feel like if I do not give a try I will never know if I could have succeed in this field. I just do not want to think 20yrs from now why did I not give it a try. At least I can say I gave it a shot if I do it now. Besides if it does not work out at least I do have a fall back as I am currently a Design Engineer that designs/drafts high-end security system for large corporations and government agencies. And before that I designed telecomm and cable television systems.

I do understand that you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. And that's the way it is in most business.
I have talked to Marti Humphrey and Frank Morrone yesterday on the phone and they gave me a real world insight on the business. Between the both of them they basically told me the same thing. I have gotten my questions answered with satisfied answers from Marti and Frank. I am just not clear on the career paths.

So I am asking as many people I can talk or email too about there career in Post. So far everyone I have talked to says they love it.

So if there are any sessions I could sit in on please let me know.:grin::mrgreen:

Thank you,
Todd Skelton

[Bondelev]

When you complete SAE's Audio Engineering Technology program you will receive a diploma. I would like to know if there are other schools that offer the same type of program in Los Angeles?

There are plenty. Run a Google search and you'll find them. I'm partial because I went to Berklee as an undergrad and now teach at USC. I have to say, it's not good that I have never heard of SAE. Judging from their web site, they are a new school. I don't see a list of currciculum or faculty, which are the first things I would want to know before attending a school. There's also nothing about their history on the site.

Is there a particular area in Audio I could/should learn before I take any classes to help me get ahead. i.e. Pro Tools, audio theory...etc

Pro Tools is pretty much a necessity whatever you do in post sound.

What is the career path for a Re-Recording Engineer, Mixer, sound editor, sound supervisor and ADR for film and/or TV? I know there are many positions within this field and I just would like to know what are the responsibilities and career path of each so I can choice which career I want to focus on.

Again, you're asking someone to write an awful lot with such a broad question. The short answer is that there is really no one specific career path. Get your foot in the door any way you can, and work your way up. Chances are you will have to be an unpaid intern at a post facility just to get a foot in the door.

For a description of job titles, try the MPSE site:

http://mpse.org/education/whatis.html

Or Tom Holman's book on film sound.

Besides if it does not work out at least I do have a fall back as I am currently a Design Engineer that designs/drafts high-end security system for large corporations and government agencies. And before that I designed telecomm and cable television systems.

Since I deal with students all the time, I'm very careful about recommending careers, particularly to older students who are changing careers. Based on the track record, many older students do not have the patience to work as a gopher for the first 5 years of their career and live the lifestyle fo a starving student, particularly if they are married or have children. The failure rate is high, simply because for most of them it is very easy to go back to their previous careers. That said, one of the best mixers I know changed careers in mid-life and did very well until his retirement.

Good luck,

[T.Skelton]

Thanks for the information.

Here is SAE's history. They have been in business since 1976.
http://www.sae.edu/history/

The LA school: http://www.sae-la.com/

Course details: http://www.sae-la.com/course_details/details_diplaudio.htm
I have also attached 3 zip files with the course descriptions in PDF format.

[T.Skelton]

Here are the descriptions of the SAE faculty

[T.Skelton]

ooppss... I did not upload the files.

[Bondelev]

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of the program, and I've already disclosed my existing school relationships, so take this with a grain of salt:

It looks like the LA one has only been around since 2005.

The faculty list appears to be mostly for the other schools. I don't recognize any of the names. I worry when I see that most of the faculty at a school are alumni of the same program.

The courses and instructors seem to be geared towards the music industry and not film. You will certainly learn, but you may not be adequately prepared for the film industry.

[Tim H]

Hello

Hi.


I am looking into enrolling at SAE in there Audio Technology Program. Is this a good school to gain some knowledge in audio post-production?


NO!!!

In the interests of full disclosure...I am an SAE graduate from the mid 80's.

They covered Broadcast and post-production in 1 2-hour lecture when I was a student.

I've been involved in post for 17 years now - I'm still a relative newbie - and I have forgotten more than they will ever teach.



When starting out with your first post job after completing school, what is the position(s) that I should apply for. What is the job description?
How long will it take to get promote to the next level?
What is the career path?
What is the job forecast for audio post-production? Is it in demand?
Is there continuous and stable work if you work for a post studio?


Intern. Coffee maker/runner/general dogsbody.
Varies.
Intern->operator->corpse.
Good...and bad. Yes, there is a demand for post operators in certain markets, but this is changing rapidly. In the corporate market, the bottom is falling out because everybody with a Mac lappy and a copy of FCP is somehow convincing the clients that they - as video editors - can do a better job of audio than a dedicated specialist post-audio business.

Increasingly, we are only seeing our longtime clients for voice-overs...they are now doing their own mixing. I've heard their mixes....they suck.

This is a bit of a hot-button issue for me, and I tend to not pull my punches on this issue. Sorry, but the easy and cheap availability of the means of production has not done post-shops any favours.


What piece of advise would you give to someone starting out in this field?


Become an accountant, or a tradesman.

Seriously.


Cheers,
Tim

[henchman]

Hello,
I am seriously thinking about doing a career change and I am in highly interested in a new career in Audio Post-Production.

My first question for you is, how old are you.
And then, are you married with a family.

It's harder than ever to break into this industry, and if you need a rather large guaarnteed income, or are used to a certain lifestyle, expect that to change.

This is not the type of industry where you get a diploma, and then just go find a job. It's simply not that easy.

[T.Skelton]

My first question for you is, how old are you.
And then, are you married with a family.

It's harder than ever to break into this industry, and if you need a rather large guaarnteed income, or are used to a certain lifestyle, expect that to change.

This is not the type of industry where you get a diploma, and then just go find a job. It's simply not that easy.

37, single and no kids. I can live on 50k a year.

[henchman]

37, single and no kids. I can live on 50k a year.

Ok, be prepared to be making nowhere near $50k a year when you get out of school.
Do you have a background in audio, what have you been doing for the last 20 years.

I'll be the last person to dissuade anyone form trying to get into this industry, but be prepared to be making low wages while climbing up the lader.
It will all depend on how good you are, how fast you learn, how talented you are and more than anything your personality. Can people get along with you etc.
And just keep in ind that your competition will be a good 15 years younger than you.

I would try and take a course that focuses on audio-post mainly.
And when you do start a coures, buy a copy of teh Academic M-Powered PT's, and an M-Audio transit. It will be all you'll need to get a hands-on with PT's, and it will give you proper timecode and OMF import and export capabilities.

[SoundOverMatter]

LA Recording School is an affiliation of Full Sail University - which is the east coast school that originated back in the early 80's as Full Sail School of Recording Arts and developed into Full Sail Real World Education incorporating film, computer animation, game design and development, digital media, show production and touring, and has now advanced to University status because of their various Bachelor of Science Degrees offered as well as a Master of Science Degree in Entertainment Business. The Program Director I studied under is now the VP at LA Recording School and I highly recommend that school OR Full Sail. I have an Associate of Science Degree in Recording Arts and a Bachelor of Science Degree in Entertainment Business.

Now - I'm still a newbie, with only 2-3 years under my belt. I am paying back my loans and I just started a new job today at http://www.thekitchen.tv recording/mixing ADR and editing Dialog. Everything else I've done in post has been freelanced, independent, unpaid - this is the first paying job I've gotten in 2-3 years of experience now, it is still part-time for right now, technically freelance and I make $15/hr.

There are many paths that can be taken, all will start at the very bottom, most with no education and education does not qualify you to be #1 before anyone else who has the experience, credentials and networking. It just gives you the idea, the knowledge so you can talk the talk, and a step up over someone who has no experience, no knowledge etc. You will still start at the bottom! Best way to start is find a studio in your area, apply for an internship and get to work making coffee and such. for example - check out http://www.chicagorecording.com/internship.asp and that will give you an example of what most studios will do for a new person, education or not.

SAE is a joke - and everyone I know that went there wishes they could've gone to one of the schools I listed above and just couldn't afford it or couldn't get the loans to cover it. If you can afford the schools, if you can get loans, if you have the drive and the dedication to go to school almost 24 hours a day almost 7 days a week then go. You'll learn a lot about the industry, the way to network and where, the places that are hot for work, the studios that are most well known, what is being made when and how, and just as important how to do it.

If you want to ask me any questions feel free to shoot me an email: J_LJacobs@live.com about anything.

[Supra2JZGTE]

I was going to enroll in SAE here in LA, but at the last minute I backed out. I had a bad feeling about the school. Granted I would get my hands on a Neve DFC console and a VR, I still backed out. At my age (27 at the time of this writing) I do not want to waste anymore time or money on Schools that give me absolute ZERO satisfaction and will put me deep in debt, and for what?

Here is my suggestion, Tom Holman, developer of the THX standard, has great books out, I recommend reading Surround Sound, Up and Running, Second Edition. It is a wonderful book, and if you understand sound this book is for you. Save your money, buy some great Tom Holman books and even others as well, meet people around town that are sound mixers and beg them to let you sit in on a session and learn from them. That is way to go.

It takes time to do what you want with your life when it is as grand scale as the film industry.

[eddierojas]

You can try VFS.com its a Sound Design Program specially for Film and it's run by Robert Grieve... very well known Sound Designer in Hollywood.... great guy, and has helped me a lot in my career.

I hope that helps.

- Eddie.