Left / Right vs. Dolby Digital

[yorickfinn]

Okay, some background is in order. I recently graduated from NYU Film and I'm currently finishing off my thesis film - a 35mm Anamorphic short (approx. 15 minutes). It's a rather ambitious piece, with visual effects (fires, explosions, even a bullet time shot) and we are going back to print for a late October premiere. All told the film will have at least six theatrical screenings in addition to a run of about a thousand DVDs.

At the moment, both of the sound designers we're looking at are very excited about the film (it's a VERY sound driven piece) and have run over the various options - Left / Right Analog, Dolby SR, Dolby Digital 5.1, etc...

That said, in the next week or so I'm going to have to make a decision whether to go with a standard Left/Right mix or Dolby Digital 5.1.

Dolby is being extremely genorous and is willing to give us a Dolby license for a greatly discounted rate.

Now, I understand that Dolby has the monopoly on the analog formats so that regardless of whether we do a Dolby mix that's how the film will be screened in most theaters.

Moreover, after having talked to the various sound designers and knowing a thing or two about post sound myself, I'm reasonably well versed in the pros and cons of the situation.

All things being equal, I'd choose a Dolby Digital mix, of course. But even with Dolby's student discount, it's going to cost about $2500 more to mix the film in 5.1 b/c of the added cost of doing the final mix at a big studio like SoundOne or Magno.

I do have the extra cash, but that money could also be put towards promotion and other costs or, better yet, saved.

So, my question is is it worth it? I should mention we're submitting to all the festivals and the film will likely play at two major fests.

Anyway, this post is long enough. I'll let you all duke it out.

Whatever advice you could give a struggling student is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

ps. Some of you might think the mere fact a student producing a short film is considering a Dolby mix to be rather outrageous. But let me assure you that this is no 16mm film school stuff. As I said, we shot 35mm Anamorphic Panavision and the finished product - for better or worse - looks like no student film I've ever seen. (Purely from a technical and production stand point. Not a judgment on its quality lest you think me an arrogant upstart.)

[Ronald Bosdam]

It is worth it!
If it is a very sound driven piece, it's even more a reason to do it in 5.1!
The sound-placement is mug better in 5.1
And you get the Lt/Rt analog as a back-up track in case a theater does'nt have dolby 5.1, or the digital track might fale.

Good luck on your decision!

[dr.sound]

Yorickfinn,
I would say go for the 5.1 DD. Let's hope your Sound Designers are up the task. It's a shame you're not out in L.A. . It sound like it's something that would interest me.
Good Luck,

[dr.sound]

Yorickfinn,
By the way we don't charge extra for 5.1 mixing. We perfer it! Also the L.A. Dolby guys come to the place(Monkeyland Audio) all the time. The link is www.thedubstage.com
Give us a call. It might be worth it!
Have Fun in the Mix,

[yorickfinn]

Thank you guys. My gut was telling my to go with a 5.1 mix. And your comments confirmed my instincts. (Though if anyone out there has a conflicting opinion, I'd still be interested in hearing their case.)

As far as LA is concerned, I'm actually moving out there around the second week of September. I've already got a swanky pad in Hollywood and I'll probably wind up working development at one of the studios while I spend the next year pushing my film.

That said, since we'll only be at the beginning stages of sound design when I leave, I had considered doing the mix in LA. At the moment, my plan was simply to commute btw. LA and NYC a few times during the process and for the final mix.

Of course, doing the whole deal in LA would save a bit of hassle and cash - even if Jet Blue is absurdly cheap. So I'd definitely be interested in talking to you guys at the dub stage about it. Just let me know when would be a good time to call up.

Thanks again, everyone.

[dr.sound]

Yorickfinn,
Give me a call anytime fro Monday on. I'm predubbing a Movie on Monday and finaling starting on Tuesday. I'll be on the stage until the 13th so give me a call at your convieniece. The number is on my webpage on the link below.
Take care,

[Angelo D´Angelico]

most of the short film Animations Festivals are screening the film in very poor sound systems..............So try hard to mix a good LT Rt , and not just to downmix from your 5.1 mix!!!!!
I did the sounddesign & Mix of some international awarded animations films ( like " Ring of fire " by Andres Hykade ), and I couldnt´t stand the premiere in the ( international well known ) festivals screenings because the sound system sometimes was so poor.
I even compresse my LT Rt mix ................
If the soundsystem is good..........OK , have fun with the 5.1 mix.................if not, its better to have a save , everyplace working mix

[James Young]

Excellenty recorded production sound, appropriate sound design, and a spectacular mix, are far more important than the final format of your track. Or to put it another way, a great LT/RT will blow away rough shod 5.1. Good luck.

[scott]

One thing to cobcider is wether the festivals will play your short in DD. Since it's 35mm possably. I'm working on a feature shot in 24p and we thought that we would be doing a 5.1 mix for a digital cinama print to go to festivals.... Sundance will only play an LtRt, at least for digital cinama submisions. A quick check and it turns out for us anyway that we need a good LtRt for festivals because a lot wont play the 5.1. So we are doing a 5.1 descrete mix for the DVD and a LtRt for festivals.
And after a number of talks with Dolby they were not going to cut us any great deal on Dolby suround. A stupid stance it seems to me because this film as almost no budget and a good chance of getting picked up. They don't really lose anything by discounting a festival liscence and they make it all back if it gets picked up. Anyway it forced the producers in to the arms of Dolby's competitor SRS. They have been very nice are very suportive of low budget films and as far as I have been able to determine compleatly compatable with playback over Dolby matrix theatre systems. They don't do digital so if the film gets picked up Dolby is still going to get that lisence but I was VERY disapointed in the lack of help from Dolby.

[dr.sound]

scott Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:07 am Post subject: DD 5.1 VS ?

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One thing to cobcider is wether the festivals will play your short in DD. Since it's 35mm possably. I'm working on a feature shot in 24p and we thought that we would be doing a 5.1 mix for a digital cinama print to go to festivals.... Sundance will only play an LtRt, at least for digital cinama submisions. A quick check and it turns out for us anyway that we need a good LtRt for festivals because a lot wont play the 5.1. So we are doing a 5.1 descrete mix for the DVD and a LtRt for festivals.
And after a number of talks with Dolby they were not going to cut us any great deal on Dolby suround. A stupid stance it seems to me because this film as almost no budget and a good chance of getting picked up. They don't really lose anything by discounting a festival liscence and they make it all back if it gets picked up. Anyway it forced the producers in to the arms of Dolby's competitor SRS. They have been very nice are very suportive of low budget films and as far as I have been able to determine compleatly compatable with playback over Dolby matrix theatre systems. They don't do digital so if the film gets picked up Dolby is still going to get that lisence but I was VERY disapointed in the lack of help from Dolby


dr.sound replies:
Scott,
I understand the frustration of trying to get your sound done with very little budget. However, have you ever listened to the mix in SRS. I have spent many hours with SRS. They are great people. They are making great strides into the market. I would be just a little hesitant about making an Lt./Rt. that way. Aren't most/all films Dolby SR encoded? Now your film comes along and it's not SR encoded and you expect the theater to switch off the noise reduction for your film? And if they don't? I would check with SRS and ask them if you can Dolby SR encode an SRS track and not have to pay a fee to Dolby. Contact mikec@srslabs.com and tell him I sent you.
Good luck,

[scott]

I'll ask. Mike is the guy I've been talking to. I wanted to use Dolby but there price $4000 and that is about one third of the entire buget for this film and that liscence only covered festival screenings on video. I had been told that they were very flexible with LtRt festival only liscences but that was not my experience. I hav't heard SRS in a theatre but I did talk to a few folks who had worked with it and they all seemed to feel it would not be a problem and had only good things to say. The NR is an issue I hadn't thought of... I know the stage has it available so I'll check around. Thanks for the heads up.
SK

Scott,
I understand the frustration of trying to get your sound done with very little budget. However, have you ever listened to the mix in SRS. I have spent many hours with SRS. They are great people. They are making great strides into the market. I would be just a little hesitant about making an Lt./Rt. that way. Aren't most/all films Dolby SR encoded? Now your film comes along and it's not SR encoded and you expect the theater to switch off the noise reduction for your film? And if they don't? I would check with SRS and ask them if you can Dolby SR encode an SRS track and not have to pay a fee to Dolby. Contact mikec@srslabs.com and tell him I sent you.
Good luck,[/quote]

[defmxr]

Another consideration is that if you mix it in the "widest format" you can at the first mix, you can make every possible version from that. Inclusing a great 2trk LtRt. If you just make an LtRt, then going wider, bigger later is much more problematic, expensive, and never as good as if you started there to begin with. So..mix 5.1..even if you just end up Printmastering LtRt, you can always release later in any format you need to.

Best of Luck
Dave FLuhr