24fps <-> 25fps

[aww996]

I am looking for advice as to the best way to proceed with a dilemma. I have completed FX and foley pre-mixes for a project I am mixing in 6.1 on an AMS-Neve DFC. The mixes are recorded to Akai DD8, at 44.1kHz. The mixes are at 25fps (sync to 25fps PAL picture). However, the picture master (at the moment 25fps HighDef video) is to be scanned to film for theatrical release. Because of this, the music is being composed and performed to a 24fps copy. There is also a requirement for a 25fps PAL master for broadcast in the UK.

The question is, what is the best way to get my pre-mixes to slow to 24fps, whilst maintaining sync and quality? Equipment available is DD8, ProTools and Audiofile.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

You can run the Dolby MOD at 25fps during transfer. OK, then the print is pitched down, but it works.

Or
I have had the same problem last Year, and i did some tests.
Sorry, no easy.solution for the digital mix..............
If you calculate all the tracks of your 25 fps steams down with a good audiotool to 24 fps filmsped.. This may work for the digital Mix, but you can´t do a LT Rt downmix from , this tracks!!!!!!!
You have to mix a complete 4 Track mix with 25 fps filmspeed, then do the LT RT downmix. This LT Rt 2 track can you them calculate down with a good audiotool to 24 fps filmspeed
At last you can transfer this two mixes to the dolby Mod at 24 fps filmspeed

Actually, there are some easier solutions than those suggested in the previous post.
The easiest way is to "harmonize" or pitch shift your final mixes during the print mastering, by pulling up the pitch by approx. 4.1% to compensate for pitch change when played back at 24 fps.
I use GENESIS HARMO for this, but a new Dolby box, which is an 8-ch. processor, should be available by now.
During the mastering session, the program will sound 4.1% higher, but when played back at 24, it will be back to original pitch.
Do not rely on software solutions, as most of them introduce some strange phasing effect on voices and pink noise-like ambiences. However, some plugins for ProTools (Pitch'n'Time) can produce very good results on programs containing music.
Branko Neskov

Actually, there are some easier solutions than those suggested in the previous post.
The easiest way is to "harmonize" or pitch shift your final mixes during the print mastering, by pulling up the pitch by approx. 4.1% to compensate for pitch change when played back at 24 fps.
I use GENESIS HARMO for this, but a new Dolby box, which is an 8-ch. processor, should be available by now.
During the mastering session, the program will sound 4.1% higher, but when played back at 24, it will be back to original pitch.
Do not rely on software solutions, as most of them introduce some strange phasing effect on voices and pink noise-like ambiences. However, some plugins for ProTools (Pitch'n'Time) can produce very good results on programs containing music.
Branko Neskov

can You do a direct LT Rt dowmnix from the 6 channel harmonized tracks ?

[Erik Guldager]

Yes you can do a downmix from a pitchshifted 5.1/6.1, but only if the pitchshift was made with a phaselocked 6-8 channel pitchshifter.

We have this issue all the time in Sweden.
I've tried all the good ones, and the bad ones and none is perfect!

We currently use the Dolby 585 8ch pitchshifter, it's the best one yet, but still far from perfect. With careful listening you will still hear artefacts regardless of how you set the unit up. Artefacts like glitching and double transients and strange lowfrequency sounds can and will occour whatever you use, but the more you pay the less artefacts you'll get, and the less aduible they will be!
And the 585 is expensive and does nothing but pithshift!

Good luck

Erik Guldager
Europa Post Production, Sweden